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  #1  
Old 04-17-2020, 04:39 PM
TheEstonian TheEstonian is offline
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Default Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

Hello!

I just recently bought a drum set which was advertised as 1966/68 Ludwig Super Classic Silver Sparkle. As the seller provided me some extra pictures, I had some doubts over rack tom:

1) It was supposed to be 1968, but there was no way to identify it.
2) It has WFL keystone badge (from 1955-59).
3) Silver Sparkle wrap looks more like Silver Glass Glitter wrap.
4) Wrong (non-Ludwig) rack tom bracket.
5) Metallic blue interior paint.

When I pointed these things out, the answer was classic - "if you are looking for a collector kit, then that's not it"... so I bought these drums anyway. I am not too bothered with non-original hoops or tension rods as these things need to be in the best state for proper operation. But as I play them now, these drums sound and feel amazing!

I would gladly get your expert opinions about the origin of this drum, thoughts on potential re-wrap, interior paint and bracket. Badge is definitely non-original.

The rest of the set is legit, however far from years given on advertisement:
22"x14" (November 30 1960) no serial number
16"x16" from 1969 serial number 668346

What do you guys think?
All the best!
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2020, 07:07 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

The blue paint is wrong for any era. Now the question is whether the badge is the right one for the drum or one somebody stuck on there. A WFL tom probably would have had glass glitter wrap. Does the wrap on the drum go into the scarf joint? All WFL/Ludwig drums made up to about 1968 had the wrap applied to the flat plywood before it was bent into a shell. The wrap is therefore part of the scarf joint where the two ends are glued together. To rewrap you have to cut the old wrap along the outer seam and an inch or so of the original wrap will stay inside the joint. If that was originally a WFL it would have had a diamond plate tom holder.

So newer rewrapped drum with an old badge...or older drum with a newer mount added? In either case the painted interior isn't right. It comes down to the wrap. A Ludwig era tom would not have had glass glitter wrap. If the wrap is original (in the scarf joint) then the badge is likely original too. If the wrap is original it would be from sometime before mid 1959 which is around when Ludwig switched from Glass Glitters to Sparkles. The WFL badge would push it back further. If it's a rewrap...then who knows? Although the way they made the drums did not change much prior to 1968.

Last edited by K.O.; 04-17-2020 at 07:15 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2020, 07:39 PM
myk myk is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

Does the WFL badge look messed with?, it looks good from the pictures (but they're not close-up)
Since you have a bass from 1960 maybe the tom is from a couple years earlier? Nice little kit, what did you pay?
If a legit WFL, it would have had a clear interior

Last edited by myk; 04-17-2020 at 09:38 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2020, 09:11 PM
vintagemore2000 vintagemore2000 is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

The wrap would be in the scarf of the shell, so it would be easy to see if it's a re wrap. Did you buy the kit ebay, reverb, craigslist?
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  #5  
Old 04-18-2020, 04:40 AM
TheEstonian TheEstonian is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O. View Post
The blue paint is wrong for any era. Now the question is whether the badge is the right one for the drum or one somebody stuck on there. A WFL tom probably would have had glass glitter wrap. Does the wrap on the drum go into the scarf joint? All WFL/Ludwig drums made up to about 1968 had the wrap applied to the flat plywood before it was bent into a shell. The wrap is therefore part of the scarf joint where the two ends are glued together. To rewrap you have to cut the old wrap along the outer seam and an inch or so of the original wrap will stay inside the joint. If that was originally a WFL it would have had a diamond plate tom holder.

So newer rewrapped drum with an old badge...or older drum with a newer mount added? In either case the painted interior isn't right. It comes down to the wrap. A Ludwig era tom would not have had glass glitter wrap. If the wrap is original (in the scarf joint) then the badge is likely original too. If the wrap is original it would be from sometime before mid 1959 which is around when Ludwig switched from Glass Glitters to Sparkles. The WFL badge would push it back further. If it's a rewrap...then who knows? Although the way they made the drums did not change much prior to 1968.
Yes, blue metallic interior paint was a red flag for me, as these interiors must be clear, white or granitone (from 1970). I suspect this badge was put there at some time (look at the picture from inside, grommet size is not perfect). Wrap doesn't go inside the scarf joint, but there is visible residue of and old wrap still inside there (also depicted). It is definitely a re-wrap, but I don't feel the need to rip it apart again...

Yes! That is exactly all the mystery an questions about this drum you have pointed out! With your help and expertise we will find it out.

Thank you very much for your reply!
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2020, 04:47 AM
TheEstonian TheEstonian is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
Does the WFL badge look messed with?, it looks good from the pictures (but they're not close-up)
Since you have a bass from 1960 maybe the tom is from a couple years earlier? Nice little kit, what did you pay?
If a legit WFL, it would have had a clear interior
WFL badge looks decent from the outside. It's quite hard to take pictures as the wrap is messing with camera focus. I also added a picture from inside.

I paid 1400 (shipping included) and they came with beautiful Le Blond hardcases. Good deal, I guess, since there are quite few Ludwig drum sets (from this era) for sale in Estonia or nearby.

Yep, that's why it's such a weird drum... feel free to check out pictures added to other replies.

Thank you for your reply!
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2020, 04:51 AM
TheEstonian TheEstonian is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagemore2000 View Post
The wrap would be in the scarf of the shell, so it would be easy to see if it's a re wrap. Did you buy the kit ebay, reverb, craigslist?
There is visible some wrap residue inside the scarf joint, so therefore it looks like a re wrap. Thanks for pointing it out.

I bought the kit from Finnish site: https://muusikoiden.net/tori/?category=18

Thanks for the reply!
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  #8  
Old 04-18-2020, 05:02 AM
TheEstonian TheEstonian is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

I also added a close-up picture to see the shell construction.
As we are all digging deep to the mysteries of this drum, I noticed something:

1) There is white paint under the metallic blue coat, you can see it on some pictures near the lug washers and muffler hole.
2) There are some imprints near the tom bracket washers.

Any thoughts on the base of this information?
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  #9  
Old 04-18-2020, 08:33 AM
vintagemore2000 vintagemore2000 is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

It's certainly been re wrapped. The grommet has been buggered with, The white paint would be the original paint from Ludwig.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2020, 05:24 PM
myk myk is offline
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Default Re: Help needed on identifying Ludwig drum

It's a later 1961-68 tom because of the white paint and someone stuck the WFL badge in there. Still a nice little kit. Repaint white if it bothers you, maybe find a later badge if possible , that virgin bass is very nice, I'd be very happy with that kit

Last edited by myk; 04-18-2020 at 05:28 PM.
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