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  #11  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:30 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Patch View Post
In the 60's-70's there were three main manufacturers of MIJ stencil drums Pearl, Star, & Hoshino. Hoshino is the least documented of the three, but we do know that their official name was Hoshino Kougyou and in no way related to Hoshino Gakki, who was the parent company of Star/Tama. There were two smaller companies who also made the stencil drums, Sakae & Yamamoto Drums (Gracy). Sakae had better hardware and diecast hoops, but all five had lesser quality shells in the beginning. The Zim-Gar brand for a while used Sakae (as well as Star). If anyone is guilty of using someone else's lugs, it would be Hoshino, whose Slingerland style tom lugs are identical to Star. Pearl's lugs are slightly different.
They are all guilty of stenciling from SONOR too. SONOR was the only company that sued and was willing to go bankrupt doing so. They almost did. They also could not win. That's how bad it got. The cheap swingers, rockers, and other kits from the early seventies minus the Champion series is a direct result of going for broke protecting their brand. No US drum company would do it. Even though all the drums were marketed in the US from Japan.

Hoshino, Pearl, Star, can Sakae my stick for all I care.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2019, 10:33 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

Sakae was making all the Yamaha drums beginning in 1967. Looking inside my D20 shells, the angled ply seam is blatantly apparent. The brilliance of the design is that the butted ends would force the shell round and produce a super tight seam. I didnít understand why they did it until I saw a shell being made. Each ply is layer up this way, then an air bladder is inflated inside the shell blank to clamp everything together.

Finally ends are cut to square them up.

Bearing edges in 1967 look nothing like the recording custom line, but the stagger seam and choice of birch is identical.

Sakae made quality drums for Yamaha and continues to do so under their own brand. Iíve tried them out and the sound, build quality and attention to detail is clear. Very nice drums for sure.

Yamaha? Yeah, now they make everything themselves in China. Even the recording custom line. Itís sad. But this came after they tried their hand at making everything with the ďstage custom birchĒ line which, blindfolded, are indistinguishable from Sakae/Japan made recording customs. Put US made Remo heads on and go. Seriously.

Personally, I think Yamaha should have kept at least one drum line in Japan, even if Sakae wasnít making them. But I guess it doesnít matter to me as I have enough Japan made Yamaha drums to last me until Iím dead.

Rock on.
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2019, 01:11 PM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall View Post
They are all guilty of stenciling from SONOR too. SONOR was the only company that sued and was willing to go bankrupt doing so. They almost did. They also could not win. That's how bad it got. The cheap swingers, rockers, and other kits from the early seventies minus the Champion series is a direct result of going for broke protecting their brand. No US drum company would do it. Even though all the drums were marketed in the US from Japan.

Hoshino, Pearl, Star, can Sakae my stick for all I care.
That's a good post.

I can see why you feel the way you do about the stencil kits.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2019, 03:49 AM
musiqman musiqman is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by J!m View Post
Sakae was making all the Yamaha drums beginning in 1967. Looking inside my D20 shells, the angled ply seam is blatantly apparent. The brilliance of the design is that the butted ends would force the shell round and produce a super tight seam. I didn’t understand why they did it until I saw a shell being made. Each ply is layer up this way, then an air bladder is inflated inside the shell blank to clamp everything together.

Finally ends are cut to square them up.

Bearing edges in 1967 look nothing like the recording custom line, but the stagger seam and choice of birch is identical.

Sakae made quality drums for Yamaha and continues to do so under their own brand. I’ve tried them out and the sound, build quality and attention to detail is clear. Very nice drums for sure.

Yamaha? Yeah, now they make everything themselves in China. Even the recording custom line. It’s sad. But this came after they tried their hand at making everything with the “stage custom birch” line which, blindfolded, are indistinguishable from Sakae/Japan made recording customs. Put US made Remo heads on and go. Seriously.

Personally, I think Yamaha should have kept at least one drum line in Japan, even if Sakae wasn’t making them. But I guess it doesn’t matter to me as I have enough Japan made Yamaha drums to last me until I’m dead.

Rock on.
To add. There is no quality difference (the quality control gto even better and tighter with the move) and the PHX line is still being made in Japan by hand. So nothing to be sad about and try those new lines. They are actually stunning (I prefer the new RC over the old ones too).

To me the 1967 (and up) Sakae made Yamaha drums are above the ''stencil'' denomination.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:32 AM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

I was not aware the PHX line was still made in Japan (by Sakae?). I have yet to try them, but the artists who still use them seem to be quite happy with them.

The price is stratospheric but I could theoretically sell my three kits and get one PHX kit... But I'd really want to hear them before I even entertain that, and who has a set ready to demo???
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2019, 02:50 PM
musiqman musiqman is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

The PHX is made by Yamaha’s own craftsmen in Osaka.

I had the luck to have them on a loan base for about two years and I loved them. But indeed priced high.
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2019, 04:21 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

That is quite a long term loan...

How would you describe them, as compared to 80's variant Recording Customs? And what heads did you use (or prefer, if you tried a few)?
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2019, 03:48 AM
musiqman musiqman is offline
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Default Re: Sakae 'Rhythm King' snare drum

Yeah. But it was needed and much welcome.

What I always missed about the older RC's (and the reason why I had multiple over the years all to be sold again) the feel of the kick at the player's side.

I want to feel the kick next to hearing it (or in the absence of this at a stage) only the 24'' came close and it was a ... to gig with.

Then I did a demo day and they had set up the new RC in 22x18 (I think it had an Emad on it and some other Evans heads) boom. perfect!

The toms didn't seem to differ much (and I might be inclined to say I like the old ones more).
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