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  #21  
Old 12-28-2017, 08:21 PM
DrumBob DrumBob is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 336
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

Marc, I just got my copy and was a bit underwhelmed, to be honest. I would like to have seen more detail, photos and information. Rob and Harry took the time to really research their subjects and provide lots of valuable information as well as copious photos. Obviously, that wasn't your goal in this case. The book is what it is; a quick read that you can buy for eight bucks.

I think you should follow their lead and produce a real reference book about stencil drums. The time might be right. An acquaintance of mine, Frank Myers of Allentown, PA, wrote a well received book last year about 60's Japanese guitars. Color photos are a must in a book like this. People will want to see the various finishes in color. Frank went to the sources in Japan; the surviving businessmen who made those guitars and interviewed them. He spoke to American distributors and music retailers who sold them, as well as other collectors and experts. His research was thorough.

I know through my own experience that writing a factual book requires exhaustive research and planning. When I wrote my book, there was no Internet, which made the task harder. I used a typewriter and a fax machine, as well as the US Mail and the telephone. Ancient communication. Today, there's so much information readily available online. Good luck should you choose to write another book.
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'01 DW Collectors Series, Oyster White, 10/12/14/16/22
'64 Slingerland, 13/16/22 (to be restored)
'65 Leedy, Blue Sparkle, 12/14/20
'67 Ludwig, Burgundy Sparkle, 12/13/16/22
'73 Slingerland, Sky Blue Pearl, 12/13/16/22
'72 Rogers, Oyster Black, 13/16/22
'70s Tempro, Red Grain Pearl, 12/14/14sn/20
Too many snares to list!

Author of the book, "Great Rock Drummers Of The Sixties."

Last edited by DrumBob; 12-28-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:04 PM
Marc Patch Marc Patch is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Lake Mills, IA
Posts: 4
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

Thank you for buying the book. Thank you also for critiquing it. I will take all of this in consideration as I continue. I was not trying to put out a book that would rival Cook, I simply had just compiled a larger list of stencil brands than I had seen floating around out there, and I wanted to try to link them with their manufacturers the best I could and show how to tell them apart. I published the book when new information dried up, and I knew the book would stir up some buried documentation. I'm sorry the book fell short for you, I will try to do better next time. Thank you again, Marc
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2017, 11:29 AM
CTMichaelV CTMichaelV is offline
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Shelton CT & Mont-St Gregoire Canada
Posts: 638
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

Marc
Thank you for responding to our posts and welcome to the Forum. I am the person that posted the initial thread for the members as I found the information on Facebook and wanted to share it with the community. I thought I would give you my input and why I posted the “HOLD OFF on Ordering” after my initial post when I received the book.

When I first saw the posting on FB, there was a link to order the book but I was unable to see any preview. I ordered the book thinking that it would be a great resource.

I use the various Rob Cook and other drum company books quite extensively so I paid for the deluxe version with hard cover, sleeve, etc at $19.99. When it arrived, I do have to admit that I was disappointed due to the generic information that was within the book. I really expected a lot more. Yes, the cover is very nice, but the information within left a lot to be desired.

If you decide to re-publish, might I respectfully recommend reaching out to our members and many of our MIJ gurus. They have many pictures of kits, hardware, wraps, badges and are a plethora of facts and information that I am sure they would be more than happy to share with you for your use. I have lent out comic strip art and comic book art pictures for use in reference books and all that was ever done was a credit in the back of the book of “used with thanks and permission from the collection of . . .”

Some areas for improvement and topic areas that I thought would be in the book:
- Badge pictures (there are so many various badges that were not pictured, that are readily available from collectors and with a bit of research)
- Wrap pictures (color) . . . I started collecting MIJ drums because the wraps are so cool and were not available on the main-stream drums.
- Kit pictures (color)
- A chapter or section on the various major makers (yes that could get rather extensive but each had a bit of a difference on their hardware and wraps)
- Model the next version like Mike Curotto’s book or Rob’s books, pictures and information.

I do thank you for your inquiries on how to improve the book and accepting our input.

Michael aka CTMichaelV
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No Guru - I just love collecting & learning about vintage drums !

Some of my favorite from the 14 kits in the collection
58 WFL New Yorker Blue Sparkle
69 Ludwig Standard Red Ruby Strata
70's Ludwig BOP "Ringo" Kit

Over 100 Snares: A few favorites
20's Leedy Black Elite
51 Leedy & Ludwig Knob Tension
58 WFL Buddy Rich Classic Blue Sparkle
63 Walberg & Auge Sea Blue Agave Green Pearl
66 Leedy Shelly Manne Blue Agate Pearl
02 Gretsch 75th Anniversary Stars Stripes
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:07 PM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Posts: 516
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

I also purchased this book. I appreciate it for what it is - a start that includes some information that I have not seen elsewhere. I foresee making notes in my book as I pick up additional information. Although I do not own very many MIJ stencil drums, I am interested in having a ready resource when the need arises.

I will be happy to assist Marc should he decide to expand the work with a second edition. I would encourage others to do the same. As someone who has written a few small books on vintage drums, I can say that the time it takes to compile information, take pictures and write text far exceeds the monetary gain from sales. This is a labor of love.

Although I would love to see a comprehensive book on Japanese stencil drums, I do not see that the financial reward is there for one author, especially if it is expected to include high quality color pictures (which are not subject to someone else's copyright) and information gained through trips to Japan to talk to the people who were involved. How many people would purchase such a book? A couple of hundred maybe? After color printing costs, photography, shipping, etc... The author can expect to make a couple of hundred dollars for the hundreds of hours it would take to put it together. As DrumBob knows, it takes a lot of effort to put together a book which is accurate, comprehensive and visually appealing.

Marc - thanks for your efforts. If you decide to take the time to expand this into a more comprehensive work, contact me or seek information from those who frequent the vintage non-USA page of this forum.

If anyone else wants to build on what Marc has done and write a more comprehensive study, please do. Feel free to contact me for advice and lessons learned from my efforts. Perhaps Rob Cook and Rebeats would be interested in publishing it. Contact him directly or I would be happy to contact him for you. He was very open to my research on Gretsch's use of serial numbers and has published both of my guides.
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Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2018, 08:22 PM
Marc Patch Marc Patch is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Lake Mills, IA
Posts: 4
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCDrumDad View Post
I also purchased this book. I appreciate it for what it is - a start that includes some information that I have not seen elsewhere. I foresee making notes in my book as I pick up additional information. Although I do not own very many MIJ stencil drums, I am interested in having a ready resource when the need arises.

I will be happy to assist Marc should he decide to expand the work with a second edition. I would encourage others to do the same. As someone who has written a few small books on vintage drums, I can say that the time it takes to compile information, take pictures and write text far exceeds the monetary gain from sales. This is a labor of love.

Although I would love to see a comprehensive book on Japanese stencil drums, I do not see that the financial reward is there for one author, especially if it is expected to include high quality color pictures (which are not subject to someone else's copyright) and information gained through trips to Japan to talk to the people who were involved. How many people would purchase such a book? A couple of hundred maybe? After color printing costs, photography, shipping, etc... The author can expect to make a couple of hundred dollars for the hundreds of hours it would take to put it together. As DrumBob knows, it takes a lot of effort to put together a book which is accurate, comprehensive and visually appealing.

Marc - thanks for your efforts. If you decide to take the time to expand this into a more comprehensive work, contact me or seek information from those who frequent the vintage non-USA page of this forum.

If anyone else wants to build on what Marc has done and write a more comprehensive study, please do. Feel free to contact me for advice and lessons learned from my efforts. Perhaps Rob Cook and Rebeats would be interested in publishing it. Contact him directly or I would be happy to contact him for you. He was very open to my research on Gretsch's use of serial numbers and has published both of my guides.
Thank yo so much for buying the book and for the advice. 35 years ago I was that lower-middle-class kid who had a no-name drum set and wanted to know what to call it. It took this long and the internet to solve it, because there were no books on the subject. My initial goal was to publish a master list of the stencil brands and to show how to tell the makers of these brands apart with my personal research, which I think I somewhat accomplished. I also tried to make it as inexpensive as possible. I do plan to make a little more complete book in the future, with larger full color pictures and more information, but I haven't seen enough documented information to make a book 1/4 of a Rob Cook style book. I won't just quit just because my book doesn't compare to others, and I'm not going to create a book of filler information to make it longer, but I do want what is in the book to be accurate and as complete as I can. If I have inspired someone to write their own stencil book, that is almost a greater reward.
These stencil guys are some of the most helpful and supportive in the drum world and make it worth the effort. Thank you for your time and support! Marc Patch
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2018, 03:56 PM
Drummerjohn333 Drummerjohn333 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,396
Default Re: Vintage Stencil Drum Book

If I were very wealthy - in money and time, I would very much like to be the one who finally does this topic justice. The extent of expense it would entail would be enormous. My guess is that Rob Cook has decided to pass on the idea for this very reason.
I got some vintage nylon drum bags in a deal - they were David Wexler cases. I researched Wexler and learned that the David Wexler Music Co. is still in business but he has passed and they do not deal in drums so much anymore. This was the American retailer that brought us WHITEHALL. I called and talked with a very nice and informed lady who knew much of the history. The last Wexler (pretty sure a Wexler) to have died that was involved first hand with Pearl and Star reps back in the day.....he died not long ago - and indeed it sure would have been awesome to have interviewed him before he left us.
Those experiences - talking to those people (on both sides of the Pacific) would be fascinating and fun as all get-out! ALOT of 'brands' to research though.

I have not bought Marc's book - but I want to thank him for making the effort and at least making the topic more discussed in the VDC community.
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