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  #1  
Old 06-16-2020, 07:11 PM
jda jda is offline
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Default Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...



Cookin' Steamin' those Miles with Philly sides were done in? 53- to 56...
Does that look like a III?.... hmm? What could it be?

I will need the best old K hands and ears on deck..Now! Move it move it soldier!

Much to discuss!
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2020, 08:33 PM
paulwells73 paulwells73 is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Looks more like a Type IVa or IVb to me. The records he mentioned were all done in 1956, which doesn’t line up with the stamp timeline, though.
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Old 06-17-2020, 03:14 AM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwells73 View Post
Looks more like a Type IVa or IVb to me. The records he mentioned were all done in 1956, which doesn’t line up with the stamp timeline, though.
I agree with you Paul...IVa or IVb for sure. Even looks like it.

And this is a good object lesson comparison demonstrating how Zildjian can't even come close to the original. Those old K. subtleties... the stick defined above the gentle wash, the character; all missing in the A. Also you'll notice just how much the pitch differs between them. That K. has all the character of a very fine quality old Scotch (single malt). You can savor it's subtley and smoothness, and it goes down with just a touch of oak-like aromaticity...but followed by that that A....it's roughly like taking a swig of Southern Comfort. You just want to spit it out onto floor. It's not even in the same league as the K.

Last edited by Drumaholic; 06-17-2020 at 01:38 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2020, 11:38 AM
jda jda is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Let me put my IV ears on and listen again; I didn't think it reacted quite like a III..

An aside why didn't John chose a Kerope to put alongside the old K.
Wouldn't that been the more logical choice.. Then I thought "they want to move the K Constantinople's..altho those sell pretty well don't they.

Yes it sounds like the stiffer IV doesn't it..

All they had to do was put the stamp up to the camera but over these years I've gotten the feeling Paul does not subscribe to the stamp builds differences. He says "they were all ultra-different". Man that shows a resistance to knowledge. We all agree I think- within an era- they were near carbon copies. And was moreso the era that changed the build along with the sound.

Countless times we've all found 5 20" intermediates or 5 22" New Stamp or even among the III's and the IV's cymbals they were nearly identical.

Which leads to my theory of teams made an era. Then were disbanded and another team with a new insignia moved in.

The only other theory of the "K Changing" was the tools and machinery change. I kinda like mine my theory.
Because I can imagine business being what it was they were lay offs and downtime and then new teams reassembled with a new insignia. It's a stretch but the consistency within a stamp leads me to thing each era was the same 6 or 11, guys..then disbanded and then restarted..
~
The correlation between Stamp and Build was like 6 different companies I. II. III. IV Intermediate, New Stamp.

I'm not sure about the I, II evolution into III as far as their build. But how the build (hence sound/character) changed, between the old stamp (generally) and the intermediate and the New Stamp - precisely ALONG with the stamp- is baffling and may forever remain mystical (ha and true
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Last edited by jda; 06-17-2020 at 12:16 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2020, 02:01 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

I'm working on a hypothesis that not only does weight and bow depth determine a cymbal's overall pitch, but that hammering density does as well; the idea being that a cymbal that's considerably more densely hammered will be higher in pitch as compared to another that is not so densely hammered with all the other factors affecting the pitch being roughly equal between them. For example the weight and the bow depth of the old K. can be fairly easily replicated in the making of the Constantinople, and so I'm assuming that was the case here. Yet the pitch difference was considerable between them. In that case the variable that could explain this difference is the fact that the hammering density of the old K. is considerably more. And the type IV's were known to be a mass of overlapping broad impact hammering marks which served to make them stiffer feeling cymbals under the stick than most of the other old stamps.
So in light of that here's yet another comparison to consider. It's the Kenny Washington 22" which I believe to also be a type IV, when compared against the K. Constantinople which was designed to emulate it. Again you'll notice the considerable pitch difference between the two, along with the other characteristics of K. vs. A.

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Old 06-17-2020, 07:33 PM
paulwells73 paulwells73 is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

I’ve played Kenny’s ride - it’s a New Stamp, actually. One of the best New Stamps, ever. The weight is 2448g.
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2020, 08:53 PM
jda jda is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Yes I understood the Kenny to have been a New Stamp too.

\You have to wonder what the Kerope was devised to emulate. The Cups on the Kerope surely? are closer to height and width of a type IV 20 last of the old stamp.

Yet, they (PF) make a new K Con model (it's a model for sale ) (google Philly Joe Jones Zildjian and videos come up from Memphis Drum Shop)

..to compare with the Philly Joe old K. I guess a Kerope 20 sounds unlike a Type IV old K 20. And they didn't chose to adapt a Kerope model to emulate the old cymbal.

Part of it may have been the K Constantinople line needed a (sales) (interest in) kick in the azz.
Like to compare the bell height between the IV and the new K Con.
The Kerope cup has to be closer.

I've never seen a Kerope in person yet..
What are they like Paul? does the patina ruin them.
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Last edited by jda; 06-17-2020 at 08:59 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2020, 11:24 PM
kevin klever kevin klever is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

LOL @ Paul and John trying to keep a straight face while comparing the two cymbals. Nice to hear JR playing that cymbal though!
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2020, 05:34 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwells73 View Post
I’ve played Kenny’s ride - it’s a New Stamp, actually. One of the best New Stamps, ever. The weight is 2448g.
Wow, I never would have guessed that. Probably was an early type N.S., and no doubt one of the best ever seeing as how it was Mel that was the one who picked it out.
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2020, 05:52 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: Old K Alert...Old K Alert.. Man your stations man your stations...

Some of those earlier new stamp are real foolers. They look for all the world like old stamps and sound that way too. Check out this one at 1:45 for example:


By the way the "block stamp" A. he plays first here is the bomb. It kills.
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