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  #1  
Old 07-09-2018, 03:47 PM
TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Late '60s LM402s

I asked this over on the DFO and I'd like to get y'all's thoughts as well.

Just how rare are late '60s Keystone LM402s with the large round tone control? I hardly ever see photos of them in collections, let alone listed for sale. I'd love to get one, but I'm guessing it'll command a premium that would make even the "Bonham" sellers blush...

I saw airborneSFC picked one up a few years back, but other than that... nothing.

Does anyone else have one or know of someone who does, and just how long was the journey to add it to the collection?
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:57 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

Do you mean the difference being the round knob muffler instead of the baseball bat muffler?

Mike
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:02 PM
TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

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Originally Posted by mlayton View Post
Do you mean the difference being the round knob muffler instead of the baseball bat muffler?

Mike
Yes, it feels like the BBs outnumber the large knobs 1,000 to 1. Pre-serial drums with small knobs even seem more common than the later large knobs.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:25 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

A lot of it would be the timing/production. Ludwig used the baseball bat muffler from the early 60's(after the small round knob) and through at least mid '68. And Blue Olive badges were present as early as the fall of '69. So that only leaves a year or two at most for the Keystone badge with large round knob muffler combination.

Mike
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:33 PM
TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

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Originally Posted by mlayton View Post
A lot of it would be the timing/production. Ludwig used the baseball bat muffler from the early 60's(after the small round knob) and through at least mid '68. And Blue Olive badges were present as early as the fall of '69. So that only leaves a year or two at most for the Keystone badge with large round knob muffler combination.

Mike
Do you know how early the large knobs started?
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:51 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

They started in '68. Rick Gier has a drum documented with the large knob muffler and a Feb '68 date stamp.

Mike
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:52 PM
zenstat zenstat is online now
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

According to Gier (p22) this is the summary:

The Baseball Bat continues in use until about Feb 1968 and the 570000 serial number range. The Small Knob (3/4") tone control resurfaces when the Baseball Bat is discontinued in the Feb 1968 time frame. The Small Knob is mainly seen on Acros and marching drums at that time. The 1" Large Knob tone control is also introduced in 1968. It appears on drums with serial numbers as low as 570438 and date stamps as early as FEB 1, 1968.

This was the state of the evidence in 2013 and data collection is ongoing so precise details of earliest and latest date stamps and serial numbers are subject to change.

ref: Gier, Richard E, 2013: Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums, Rebeats Publications
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:54 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

There you have it.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:58 PM
zenstat zenstat is online now
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlayton View Post
There you have it.
Until something new comes to light. I went and looked it up while you were posting. I had forgotten about the slight complexity of the Small Knob coming back for a reprise! That's another cautionary tale to put in the "with Ludwig never say never" basket.
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Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:22 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Late '60s LM402s

And....the small knobs that were used on the Acrolites during that period are different than the original small knob mufflers from the late 50's/early 60's. Same bolt hole patterns. But the knobs are different.

Mike
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