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  #11  
Old 02-19-2021, 05:49 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

That's all well and good for you, but when someone comes here and asks about whether or not the kit they are trying to identify is one of the "suggested" factory configurations and named models, then there is (usually) a definitive answer to give them. "Yes it is." "No, it isn't."...and then we can go on to explain things in more detail. If there wasn't any way to differentiate things, then it would change the way values are attached to items. There has to be ways to identify things in order to differentiate them...thus the catalogs and references therein.

In that case, it's not a matter of obsession, but rather, one of correctness -sometimes making a significant difference in value.
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2021, 08:50 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

I'm not going to argue with you. But, let's say that I have that Gold Sparkle Gretsch set that is not pictured in the catalog. Nor, is there anything in the catalog for that year stating that some pictured outfit can have substitutions of the drum sizes that I have. And, you have the outfit pictured on page #16 in the Gold Sparkle in the sizes shown on that page. My drums and your drums were made within a few days of each other. Both drum sets are in the same condition. Why should yours be worth any more than mine?
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2021, 11:57 PM
Kona Kona is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

Yes... my drums are the Progressive Jazz outfit with an optional snare. The set is 1959 bought in early 1960 here in Canada. The wrap... 62years old is like new other than a few rubs on the rack tom and a very small cut near a lug on the floor tom. I've been very happy with them over the past 11.5years I've owned them.
Thank you for your comments
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2021, 12:10 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

Quote:
Originally Posted by leedybdp View Post
I'm not going to argue with you. But, let's say that I have that Gold Sparkle Gretsch set that is not pictured in the catalog. Nor, is there anything in the catalog for that year stating that some pictured outfit can have substitutions of the drum sizes that I have. And, you have the outfit pictured on page #16 in the Gold Sparkle in the sizes shown on that page. My drums and your drums were made within a few days of each other. Both drum sets are in the same condition. Why should yours be worth any more than mine?
You answered your own question. The reason why is because the kit in the catalog is a named kit and that information is verifiable through catalog references. The other kit in your hypothetical, does not have any of that -thus the differences as to why one would be more valuable. This, of course, is a generalization. The value is whatever anyone is willing to pay at any given time. But again there has be a way of answering people with correct information when they ask.

EDIT:

Also I just wanted to add that if any of these drums showed up for sale, individually, and not in the context of a matching drum kit, then the values of the drum sizes you named would be relatively the same...because there would be no context for any of the values to be different. When the drums are not only matching, but also are in the context of a named configuration that can be referenced in a catalog, then the ballgame changes.

Matching drums in a kit are preferable to non-matching because it is an indication that the kit has been together since it was released from the factory. It helps to separate those kits from the ones that have been pieced together from rogue drums. And matched drums that are in a factory-suggested configuration and depicted in a catalog which can be identified as such, will be the most desirable ones to collect and also be at the upper end of value. It's not unique to vintage drums. Most vintage collectibles apply these same criteria.
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Last edited by O-Lugs; 02-20-2021 at 02:04 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2021, 01:42 AM
Kona Kona is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

I'm not concerned right now with 'value' of my drums. I posted this thread mainly to see if folks here had more knowledge about how these Gretsch drums were sold back in the day. And I'm happy with response. There's a ton of knowledge and experience on this Forum and I appreciate that.
I also wanted to show my drums off a bit at the same time. I love to look at all the drums on this site as I'm sure we all do... that's one if the reasons we're here along with helping our fellow drum enthusiests out I'm sure.
Again... Name Band, Bop or Progressive Jazz... no matter. It's all good.
I will add here ...again... that my drums were bought new by the late Gary Pearse on Vancouver Island in 1960. He passed in 2005. His daughter had them in storage and sold them to me in 2009. She told me at that time her dad hadn't played them in decades and that she did not play other than she played the snare drum in grade school a bit... but not the kit. They were basically in storage for decades. They weren't looked after though and one bd hoop had water damage and the lugs and trods for one head were missing as was the original Ms strainer. The wrap and shells were otherwise in remarkable condition.

Last edited by Kona; 03-04-2021 at 02:40 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-20-2021, 02:52 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

Don't take it personally, Kona. Me and leedybdp have been poking at each other over the issue of cataloged kits vs custom ordered kits for a long time and it looks like it's never going to change. There's no hard feelings in any of it (I hope). But we just disagree. Sometimes, these threads take a left turn and go off-topic for awhile...but we all can agree that your drums are very cool!
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:57 AM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

O-Lugs is correct. There are no hard feelings between us. We just have a different perspective on catalog-correct drum sets vs. drum sets ordered by music stores or individuals that do not appear in a catalog as configured by the store or person who selected the components. Almost all of the drum sets I owned--new from stores or second-hand-- during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and since then differ in some way from pictures and descriptions in catalogs. The stores where I shopped ordered drum set configurations that sold quickly when displayed in their stores. I was a manufacturer's representative for Rogers drums made in California in the early 1980s for some Southern and Southwestern states. Most music store owners would point to pictures on the catalog, and order the drum sets as pictured--often times in the same colors as in the pictures. There was very little individualizing going on at that time in those states. They might order add-on drums for customers' special orders.
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Last edited by leedybdp; 02-20-2021 at 10:54 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2021, 12:02 AM
Delorso Delorso is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

O-Lugs and Leedybdp, for whatever it's worth, I've totally enjoyed following this debate between you two as it travels over various threads. It's entertaining, well-reasoned from both sides, and I usually end up learning more about vintage drums. I hope O-Lugs is right, and that it never changes!

It's kind of funny that while O-Lugs has the Nietzche quotes in his sign-off, his take seems more pragmatic (i.e. favoring the system of identifying and cataloguing to properly assess value), and Leedybdp's take seems more philosophical (i.e. what matters is simply the essence of the drums themselves, not what their configuration name was, etc).
I realize that's an over-simplification of both of your positions, but I find it interesting nonetheless.
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2021, 08:56 AM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

Delorso, I like your interpretation of our differing opinions on this matter.
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2021, 04:36 PM
jda jda is offline
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Default Re: 1959 Gretsch Gold Sparkle

Using the date they were bought new. Sometimes the set could have been in the store for 2-3 years before purchased. being this is a 6 ply and 3 ply mix makes it a little dear difficult to pin down whether they were sold together. Sold as a One Nighter type and then a floor tom ordered (and by that time the 6 ply were what was being made etc etc on and on.

but never call a 20/12/14 a Name Band : )
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