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Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 11:26 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Aren't those two badges from approx the same serial number range? If so, what you have demonstrated is variation rather than chronology. Once you have 25 or so of each color and document that the...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 08:27 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

So this is an example of a snare which gives us no reliable evidence that it really is 1976. No big deal in terms of buying, selling, and playing drums. Big difference in terms of looking for 1976...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 08:09 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Fake or RCI is not the question. It is about the exact year 1976. Same as the seller Drumwacker dealt with. Where does 1976 come from?

Everybody slow down and take a deep breath and repeat after...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 08:01 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Yes the darker/lighter Olive is lighting as far as I can tell because I've got photos which show a variety of shades. That doesn't mean somebody might not be able to see a systematic difference in...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 07:40 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Snare badge not fake: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-LUDWIG-BICENTENNIAL-RED-WHITE-BLUE-PATTERN-C-VISTALITE-5x14-SNARE-DRUM/372773722905?hash=item56cb0b9b19:g:pV8AAOSwAnxcfCyM

Bass badge not fake:...
Forum: Vintage Drums 10-09-2019, 07:37 PM
Replies: 35
Views: 781
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig Tequila Sunrise 6 3/4x14 Snare

This isn't new information, and it isn't independent verification. All I've done is annotate the features in the badge which give it away. The info was already available here
...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-09-2019, 03:58 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Even nicer examples of the badges being talked about.

B Stock badge

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127883&d=1570654697

Real BO2
...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-06-2019, 08:04 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Thanks for the link. Nice looking.

What I'd be interested to know is why the seller says 1976. I've gone into the subject with my statistician hat on and documented plenty of cases where a 1976...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-05-2019, 07:48 PM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

If there is an that would be informative about the year. I don't remember any blank serial numbers on the badges but I stopped paying close attention once I passed all my data over to Rick for...
Forum: General Drum Questions 10-05-2019, 12:45 AM
Replies: 52
Views: 806
Posted By zenstat
Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

I'll add that what you read on the interwebs was all made obsolete by Rick Gier's 2013 book "Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums". Published by Rebeats. Alas, the interwebs...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 10-05-2019, 12:03 AM
Replies: 8
Views: 245
Posted By zenstat
Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Thanks Mark. It's already in my data but not in that analysis.

Just to clarify statistical terms, $750 is within the range I've recorded on that graph. I've annotated a few places on the graph. ...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 10-04-2019, 03:14 PM
Replies: 8
Views: 245
Posted By zenstat
Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

The evidence suggests the opposite:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/A22-price-by-era.png

T = Transitional Stamp Era (late 40s early 50s)
L = Large Stamp Era (mid 50s)
S = Small Stamp Era...
Forum: Vintage Drums 09-25-2019, 12:58 AM
Replies: 3
Views: 220
Posted By zenstat
Re: Keystone Badge Club Dates............worth the price?

For future reference:

The price $599.99 + $120 shipping

Sampling of pics attached
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 09-22-2019, 03:58 PM
Replies: 5
Views: 230
Posted By zenstat
Re: Vintage Paiste 2002 20" Ride 431898

Alas your reply has inaccuracies and works correctly about 80% of the time at best. That's why I gave the link to the page where the detail is given in full.
...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 09-20-2019, 05:53 PM
Replies: 5
Views: 230
Posted By zenstat
Re: Vintage Paiste 2002 20" Ride 431898

1974

see: http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Serial_Numbers

For selling purposes that's called a Black Label 2002. Red Labels came on the scene later, and some people specifically hunt for...
Forum: Vintage Drums 09-17-2019, 03:40 PM
Replies: 74
Views: 1,591
Posted By zenstat
Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127560&d=1568671112



Yes it came with a Downbeat. That probably increased the price although there are other factors. This one ticks...
Forum: Vintage Drums 09-16-2019, 03:42 PM
Replies: 74
Views: 1,591
Posted By zenstat
Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!

Vintage Jazzette kits come up for sale about three per year on average (38 in 13 years). Orphan 12x18 bass drums come up less frequently. So it's possible. I got my kit in Feb 2004, which is when I...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 09-14-2019, 09:39 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 1,558
Posted By zenstat
Re: Paiste People ??

It is also not the only use of Stambul. Here is another use of the name Stambul on what claims to be a Made in Turkey cymbal. Diameter 11" and 300g.
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 09-12-2019, 04:01 PM
Replies: 4
Views: 2,082
Posted By zenstat
Re: Paiste Stanople-Swiss Made

That Stanople is not a Paiste Stanople trademark. Paiste Stanoples come from Switzerland or Germany.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127482&d=1568321449
...
Forum: For Sale 08-31-2019, 02:43 PM
Replies: 5
Views: 586
Posted By zenstat
Re: 1950's Zildjian 22" Large Stamp Type I (LS1) Ride Cymbal

If you follow the link to the eBay auction it says

"It weighs 2610 grams."

but that auction is also marked "no longer available" so I don't know if the cymbal has gone or it is just that it is...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 08-25-2019, 03:30 PM
Replies: 47
Views: 12,212
Posted By zenstat
Re: How to date Black Label Paiste 2002 Cymbals

And here is a textbook example of how people get 1971 for a 1981 serial number if they don't know about the changes to the Patent List and are misled by the interwebs (and Paiste) saying serial...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 08-22-2019, 01:18 AM
Replies: 11
Views: 1,150
Posted By zenstat
Re: Small vs. Large (modern) holes on Cymbals

It is a 2013 resurrect so we won't be doing to much disservice to the original post.

That looks like a Hartrick Type IIb to me. To tell a IIb from a IIIa or IIIb

I look at

MADE IN TURKEY...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 08-21-2019, 05:57 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 1,150
Posted By zenstat
Re: Small vs. Large (modern) holes on Cymbals

We can identify it for you if you post pictures of the trademarks.
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 08-21-2019, 03:24 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 1,150
Posted By zenstat
Re: Small vs. Large (modern) holes on Cymbals

The evidence from Avedis Zildjian is 1958 or so for a shift from 7/16" to 8/16" (aka half inch).

http://black.net.nz/avedis/holes.html

It looks like Italian cymbals are roughly the same but the...
Forum: Vintage Drums 08-18-2019, 04:34 PM
Replies: 28
Views: 779
Posted By zenstat
Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Slingerfan meant the Vintage Cymbal forum of this site not some different site. This thread is a good example of decade out of data info and the reluctance of some people to move on.
...
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