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-   -   WFL snare weird shell construction (http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=64776)

poco rit. 06-23-2019 06:11 PM

WFL snare weird shell construction
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hey yall! Im new too the forum. Been comin to this site for a while to look for answers to questions but I have a question that I couldn't find an answer for.

So I have a 1957 WFL Barrett Deems snare drum. I have 2 questions if any of you guys know whats goin on with this shell's construction. If you can see the pic that shows the interior, there's a little piece of wood that's tucked under the re-ring.

1) Can any one explain the reason why they would wedge a little piece of wood in between the re-ring like that?
2) What would the "14" marked in white have meant?

Another little quirk is that the snare beds don't quite align with the snare gates, but I know that that is not uncommon. But despite all this, the snare still sounds great! Very woody of course and surprisingly sensitive.

Also, is there any kind of grease or paste or something I can put around the threads of the strainer to make it NOT so easy to turn? The snare wires always become loose after not even that long of play time. And I feel like its because the strainer is just too easy to turn. Does that make sense? lol. Anyways, thanks for reading! :)

poco rit. 06-23-2019 06:13 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
2 Attachment(s)
pic of the badge and strainer

OddBall 06-23-2019 09:01 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
The wedge could simply be to stop a vibration or fill a void during gluing. The 14 is probably assembly or inspection related.

The wedge actually looks factory to me.

poco rit. 06-23-2019 09:56 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Very interesting. Im afraid to poke at it too hard but it does seem to be wedged in there pretty good. Thanks for the info!

andlours 06-23-2019 11:29 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
On WFL and early Ludwig drums they wrote the diameter of the shell on the interior.

poco rit. 06-23-2019 11:38 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Wow. That makes perfect sense now. Thank you sir!

idrum4fun 06-24-2019 01:41 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andlours (Post 448070)
On WFL and early Ludwig drums they wrote the diameter of the shell on the interior.

I had a feeling that this might be the answer!

-Mark

DRUMR69 06-24-2019 01:22 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
That strainer looks like it might of been hit and is bent in at the arm. That could be why it is loosening. Grease or lube would just make it more easier to turn I would think, so I wouldn't add that. Teflon tape on the threads might work.
Nice snare by the way.
Wayne

poco rit. 06-24-2019 05:55 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Teflon tape. Genius. Ill give that a try. And thanks! Its definitely got some mojo.

Drum Doug 06-24-2019 07:22 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's an example of typical WFL shell diameter markings.

jda 06-24-2019 08:22 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
No one's wagering on the shims..

OddBall 06-25-2019 12:03 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poco rit. (Post 448060)
pic of the badge and strainer

I can see the slide and the rail have a lot, no, too much play in them. It's so much you can see it.

If you take the slide and wiggle it and there's easy play, like I see in yours,..the slide will back down with gravity away from the rail when you throw it or play it. Either the slide is opened,or the rail has worn from being used dry when there's play in it.

I knocked of the tiniest amount of my rail corners with a knife stone because my slide was sticking and skipping. Didn't have to close the slide or anything and it's fine.

Tap and or die the threads if they turn out to be the problem.

OddBall 06-25-2019 12:08 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
The birth marks near the seam is from the drum sander stopping and going back over the seam. A naked I will not see sanding differences but the finish will show it.

poco rit. 06-26-2019 08:13 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Dang i missed these emails! Sorry for the late reply.

Drum Doug cool Duco WFLs! It makes sense now. I cant believe I didnt realize sooner that the white “14” meant shell diameter.

Oddball thanks for the schoolin my guy! So in regards to the wedge, you said you think it was done at the factory? Or do you think it was done by the previous owner? The guy I bought it from (through Ebay) was not a drummer. He didnt even have a drum key to show me the interior or edges. He said he inherited the drum. It was a risk but I got a stupid good deal and the drum turned out to be in great shape.

Im trying to piece together an origin story to explain our friend “the wedge” (or idk what to call it. JDA says shim?) Maybe the guy who was making the drum that day needed to improvise and did whatever he needed to do to get the drum out the door. But if the wedge was done at the factory, then its interesting to think that whoever did quality assurance was just ok with that extra bit of wood in there. Didnt the WFL catalogue claim Ludwig himself supervised every drum or something??

But if the wedge was done after the fact, then I would think the re-ring would be compromised and distorted by now. But the ring looks fine as far as i can tell....

If yall could give this drum and “the wedge” a memoir how would it go? :)

jda 06-26-2019 10:20 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
I don't recall seeing any " space". Looking "up" at a reinforcement ring; there is "no space" there for a 'shim" Is There?
Is there "space" all along the underside of that ring? What would happen if you pull the shim (is there 1 or 2?) Out?
Reminds me of sticking a "match pack" under a table leg (remember doing that?) when a table wobbled.


Might that ring been vibrating and someone stuck the proverbial matchpack " in this case a piece of wood shim" up/in there to stop noise?
I don't think it belongs there (lol)
~~~
I would certainly show this to the guys over at DFO. And get their read on it.
~~~~~~~~

The last picture (5) looks like there is "no space" for the shim. So Maybe yeah a quick fix (for an open-space flaw) from the factory. It would be the first ever seen; unless the guys at DFO have seen it before..
~~
Or leave it and look at it this way : " You got extra wood" (!!

OddBall 06-26-2019 04:30 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poco rit. (Post 448169)
Dang i missed these emails! Sorry for the late reply.

Drum Doug cool Duco WFLs! It makes sense now. I cant believe I didnt realize sooner that the white “14” meant shell diameter.

Oddball thanks for the schoolin my guy! So in regards to the wedge, you said you think it was done at the factory? Or do you think it was done by the previous owner? The guy I bought it from (through Ebay) was not a drummer. He didnt even have a drum key to show me the interior or edges. He said he inherited the drum. It was a risk but I got a stupid good deal and the drum turned out to be in great shape.

Im trying to piece together an origin story to explain our friend “the wedge” (or idk what to call it. JDA says shim?) Maybe the guy who was making the drum that day needed to improvise and did whatever he needed to do to get the drum out the door. But if the wedge was done at the factory, then its interesting to think that whoever did quality assurance was just ok with that extra bit of wood in there. Didnt the WFL catalogue claim Ludwig himself supervised every drum or something??

But if the wedge was done after the fact, then I would think the re-ring would be compromised and distorted by now. But the ring looks fine as far as i can tell....

If yall could give this drum and “the wedge” a memoir how would it go? :)

Yes, I think the shim was done at the factory. You would be surprised what get's by when production is running full capacity. Ludwig has ugly glue drips and lap lumps that get by. A white head would hide that shim. If you don't like it, simply score it even with a razor knife and snap it off.

poco rit. 06-26-2019 06:12 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Yes extra drum for the same price! The guy who paid an extra $8 bucks for chrome plating didnt know the freebie he was getting. Ya there is really no space between the shim and the shell. I dont wanna attempt to finesse the shim in fear that it is a pull tab and the world will implode.

I may create a DFO account. Only for the sake of seeing if anyone else has seen a shim stuck in the re-ring like this before. But you guys have helped me understand it a lot already.

I dont think ill trim the shim. I like the shim now. He reminds me that man is not infallible. An imperfect man made an imperfect drum. But there can be beauty in imperfection. The story is whats fun about these drums.

grantro 06-26-2019 06:16 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
I would leave the shim as is...It`s been there all this time, it deserves to remain...

Cheers

OddBall 06-26-2019 06:29 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poco rit. (Post 448203)
Yes extra drum for the same price! The guy who paid an extra $8 bucks for chrome plating didnt know the freebie he was getting. Ya there is really no space between the shim and the shell. I dont wanna attempt to finesse the shim in fear that it is a pull tab and the world will implode.

I may create a DFO account. Only for the sake of seeing if anyone else has seen a shim stuck in the re-ring like this before. But you guys have helped me understand it a lot already.

I dont think ill trim the shim. I like the shim now. He reminds me that man is not infallible. An imperfect man made an imperfect drum. But there can be beauty in imperfection. The story is whats fun about these drums.

If it does not go under the ring, the only other thing that makes sense is a piece to prevent clamp marks for gluing the seam. There appears to be leftover spacer at the bottom of the seam too. Is that what I see at the other end ?

poco rit. 06-26-2019 06:59 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
At the opposite end from the bigger piece of shim, there is a little tiny small piece of shim. The camera doesnt really focus on that. But there is a remnant of shim that was in there. Also the side with the smaller shim is more glue-y. Its almost like they cut that side off mostly, but then just left the bigger shim be. So weird

poco rit. 06-26-2019 11:06 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
5 Attachment(s)
More pics of the shims just for kicks at this point.

OddBall 06-28-2019 12:12 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
As a lifelong woodworker, that top scarf joint is junk. I wont pretend it's not. I can't see the edge of the bottom one. Somebody didn't know what to do.

poco rit. 06-29-2019 12:55 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
I didnt wanna take the heads off cuz i finally got the snare tuned to the sweet spot. But i think you solved the mystery as to why someone would do this. They just plum didnt know what they were doing. Maybe it was their first week on the job? Maybe they were hung over? Ill sleep better at night thinking that the crudeness gives the drum its tone.

I think this drum really drives home the point that guys back then didnt care about the shell construction. As long as it sparkles and has a Ludwig badge. What if Craviotto or Canopus or any other high end drum makers had shells that left the shop like this? What would the public say? Funny stuff to think about...

jda 06-29-2019 04:18 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
( don't fully agree with that 4th line).. majority of WFL drums of the time were/are/ works of art. That drum of yours is a bizarre oddity and never saw or heard anything like what was inside there.

Almost looks like "tool' or measurement device helper that was to have been taken out after the rings or something were centered.

It's a rare mistake.
(I have two WFL I would not trade either even for any Craviotto or Canopus
or even the impressive new DW Dyna- Sonic !!
https://www.drumforum.org/threads/dw...e-drum.162484/
well a-maybe consider that last one

poco rit. 06-29-2019 05:33 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Dont get me wrong JDA. I love WFL! This will not stop me from buying more WFLs in the future. And this Barrett Deems still sounds really good and the chrome is quality as well as the wrap. When i said “They didnt know what they were doing”, i meant just that ONE guy who worked on my drum. And just repeating what Oddball said. I didnt mean “they” as in the whole WFL Drum Co. I have another late 40s WFL 6.5x14 concert snare drum thats perfect in every way and it is my favorite drum and my go to snare. I dont think I will ever part with my Barrett Deems snare and I am certain that I will never part with that concert snare. Im with you! :)

OddBall 06-29-2019 08:19 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jda (Post 448340)
( don't fully agree with that 4th line).. majority of WFL drums of the time were/are/ works of art. That drum of yours is a bizarre oddity and never saw or heard anything like what was inside there.

Almost looks like "tool' or measurement device helper that was to have been taken out after the rings or something were centered.

It's a rare mistake.
(I have two WFL I would not trade either even for any Craviotto or Canopus
or even the impressive new DW Dyna- Sonic !!
https://www.drumforum.org/threads/dw...e-drum.162484/
well a-maybe consider that last one

The scarf is all fractured and without the wedge, loose. You should have to look hard to see it. I can drive a truck through the separation. It's junk.

jda 06-29-2019 09:09 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
I saw it you'd have to be blind to not; Thank goodness it's only a 5 (or 5.5) would be a heartbreaker on a 6.5

Drumwhacker 11-18-2019 06:46 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
3 Attachment(s)
Learn something new every day!

I have an old WFL snare shell I recently got that I believe is a Buddy Rich Super Classic 14x5.5 It looks like there has been a few strainers popped on it in it's time, lots of holes. Hope to maker a player.

It too has the "14" I thought it might be a Q&A inspectors number. Great info and pics folks!

lucky 11-19-2019 10:59 PM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
The “shim” is at the seam where the plies overlap, just filling a void.

drumfx 12-15-2019 10:52 AM

Re: WFL snare weird shell construction
 
Guys, that re-ring does NOT look to be factory...The shell and everything else might be. Do you have a picture of the top of the ring/ shell?


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