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-   -   Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop! (http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=65140)

JFBL 09-15-2019 12:03 PM

Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
Hey all,

How often do 60s/70s Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop bass drums come up for sale? What years were these set-ups made? I've only ever seen B/O badge configuration sets but they were early enough to be 3-ply.

Let's talk "Jazzette"!

crankyfrankie 09-15-2019 12:38 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
1 Attachment(s)
They seem to come up rarely as there weren't that many made. Keep in mind that few wanted diminutive kits back in the "over-sized" seventies. The Jazette was cataloged as early the mid-1960's and was offered all through the seventies, and perhaps into the eighties.

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 01:10 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
They don't come up very often.


Here's a link to a thread that might be of interest to you....

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/show...light=Jazzette

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 01:29 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
Yeah, Roy was/is a diminutive guy and, since I wrote all that, I've heard more stories that fit very well with the "Jet" vs "Jazzette" kits and Roy....
...Oh yeah, and it couldn't have been his Opel GT that facilitated the need for a smaller bass drum...because the Opel GT didn't come out until 1968!

So it was this car that probably started it all...

https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-con...76-940x705.jpg

The 1964 Alpha Romeo

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 02:04 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
Again, please take these musings with a grain of salt because (other than interviewing Roy, himself) I have no way of confirming anything. I actually attempted to try and find a route to contact Mr. Haynes back in the days when I was researching all this stuff...but I was unsuccessful.

Roy Haynes was using Slingerland drums when he came up with the idea to replace the 18 X 14 bass drum's wood hoop and T rods with a floor tom rim and standard lug screws... so Slingerland adopted/adapted the idea and made the Jet kit. It was catalogued in 1964....

...Around 1965-66-ish, Bill Ludwig likely took Roy Haynes out for lunch and proposed the idea of having him as an endorser.....told him they'd make a special sized kit...etc. It must have been a good lunch, because the next thing to happen was that Haynes left Slingerland and the Jet behind, in favor of the Ludwig Jazzette.

The other peculiar thing is that it was really only Roy Haynes who was associated with the Jazzette kit. I don't know of any other significant name that used/endorsed a Jazzette (or a Jet, for that matter!). MOST of the heavy jazz guys who used small "bop" kits, went to Gretsch....and still do!

Bop kits weren't a significant market for the Ludwig or the Slingerland brand. And, as has been mentioned by others, by late 60's and throughout the 70's, bigger drums were the trend.

JFBL 09-15-2019 02:07 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
That is amazing stuff, great Roy Haynes story! You still have those Jazzette kits O-Lugs? Would love to see some pics of those. There is a 3-ply kit listed for sale here locally for the equivalent of about $1200 USD. Hubba Hubba

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 02:19 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
As time went on, the Jazzette went through changes....and eventually disappeared as we knew it. I can't imagine them as ever being good sellers in the 70's. I've never seen any of the later versions for sale, either....the ones when they increased the bass drum size...I think that happened in the 80's....hen's teeth....but, by then, it was all insignificant because the trend was almost completely gone...drum machines, electronic drums, poofy hair.....and so on. ;)

Now, because the early ones are rare and not readily-available, people want them more than ever.

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 02:19 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFBL (Post 451649)
That is amazing stuff, great Roy Haynes story! You still have those Jazzette kits O-Lugs? Would love to see some pics of those. There is a 3-ply kit listed for sale here locally for the equivalent of about $1200 USD. Hubba Hubba

Yes I have them and they are all tucked in for the winter! ;)

O-Lugs 09-15-2019 02:25 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
@JFBL....I think if you click on my name, then it will send you to a page that shows all my drums and kits...might have to scroll down or something.

K.O. 09-15-2019 02:31 PM

Re: Vintage Ludwig 3-ply, 12x18 Bop!
 
Ed Shaughnessy claimed to have "invented" the 18" bass drum when he was working for CBS in NYC as a studio drummer.

Ludwig offered the 12x18 and a 14x18 bass drum as single drums in the 60s and at least thru the end of the 3ply era (approx.1977). The Jazzette catalog outfit listed the 12x18" size and that is real sticking point among purists.. woe unto you if the initial buyer decided he preferred to get the 14" depth when he ordered his set. The Jazzette name outlasted that configuration and was used for a 12/14/20 six ply set in either the 1980 or 84 catalogs (I think it was the 1980 which came out in 78 but I'm not 100% certain) so take that purists. The 18" size had been dropped for outfit bass drums by then but lived on as floor toms and some marching applications.

I don't think the Jazzette was ever a huge seller so they aren't real common. My junior high drummer friends and I used to chuckle about that outfit in the catalog in the early 70s. "Who'd want that tiny thing?" Well these days I would, especially in maple thermogloss.

The revival of popularity in "bop" sets brought the size back in recent years but it isn't new, just newly popular again.


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