Vintage Drum Forum

Vintage Drum Forum (http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/index.php)
-   Vintage Cymbals (http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
-   -   Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal? (http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=44747)

dannyboy0487 05-14-2014 04:00 AM

Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Hi guys, new user from the UK here... looking for some info!

I bought this Cymbal a few months ago, and I'm wondering if anyone can give me some more info on it.

It's a big 22 inch China or 'Swish?'

It has a Zildjian stamp but also what looks kind of like a Premier stamp?

Any help would be great.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps6fb9a73e.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps1fd31f9d.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...psd65f8dbc.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps5b8ab24e.jpg

blairndrums 05-14-2014 04:16 AM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Its a 1960's A.Zil...can't tell ya if it is a Swish or China though...never really learned the difference...bend of outside edge I think...

Must have been made for Premier...cool....!

How does it sound? Gram weight? Looks like a nice one....

dannyboy0487 05-14-2014 04:36 AM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blairndrums (Post 302577)
Its a 1960's A.Zil...can't tell ya if it is a Swish or China though...never really learned the difference...bend of outside edge I think...

Must have been made for Premier...cool....!

How does it sound? Gram weight? Looks like a nice one....

I think its a 'Swish' just because it doesn't have much of a bend on the outside edge.

It sounds HUGE, I get compliments on it everywhere I go.

Couldn't tell you how much the weight is, apart from it is VERY thick.

I picked this up as a bargain, I paid 50 for it.. any idea how much it is actually worth?

Black Label 05-14-2014 05:15 AM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blairndrums (Post 302577)
Its a 1960's A.Zil...can't tell ya if it is a Swish or China though...never really learned the difference...bend of outside edge I think...

Must have been made for Premier...cool....!

How does it sound? Gram weight? Looks like a nice one....

Hi. Just as a matter of interest - how do you know it's from the 60's? Is it the three little dots inside the squiggly thing?

backbeatkeeper 05-14-2014 07:52 AM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Yes, three dots indicate 1960's. Might be also considered a Pang, but I believe those came out in early 70's, so it's probably a Swish. Zildjian didn't list those cymbals as Chinas until the 70's

zenstat 05-14-2014 04:03 PM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Label (Post 302581)
Hi. Just as a matter of interest - how do you know it's from the 60's? Is it the three little dots inside the squiggly thing?

Among other things, although there are many other stamps which have "the 3 dots". If you really want to know I can point you to multiple ways to tell. All properly illustrated and with terminology defined: the 3 dots

http://black.net.nz/cym2014/60s.jpg

But the original timeline scheme is the one by Drumaholic, and he's the expert. I'm just compiling some bits and pieces until he publishes his book which at last count was still 7 years off. His old article:



@ Dannyboy: to find the value of those just look up sold auctions (NOT asking prices) using advanced search on eBay.

About the type: Place the cymbal on a table, bell up. If the flange lies flat on the table it is a pang, and if it curves up it is a swish. My reference for this comes from this 1976 (not: not accurately dated) description of Zildjian cymbal types.

http://black.net.nz/cym2014/z-1976-cymtypes.jpg

Note you should look for both terms pang and swish on eBay because most sellers aren't sure of the names and might use either.

Chromeo 05-20-2014 11:04 PM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
It's either a swish knocker or pang. Most likely a swish, although most swish knockers are riveted I think. The 3 dots would suggest it's from the 60's, but I have a hollow logo Avedis Zildjian (70's/ 80's) that has the 3 dots. This cymbal you have doesn't have a hollow logo. I'm going to say it's from the 60's, because of that premier stamp. The font used seems like the old premier logo from the 60's. What it's doing on a Zildjian cymbal is beyond me. I've never seen that before. In the 60's Premier were making their own Super Zyn cymbals to compete with Zildjian.

zenstat 05-21-2014 07:03 PM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeo (Post 303343)
It's either a swish knocker or pang. Most likely a swish, although most swish knockers are riveted I think. The 3 dots would suggest it's from the 60's, but I have a hollow logo Avedis Zildjian (70's/ 80's) that has the 3 dots. This cymbal you have doesn't have a hollow logo. I'm going to say it's from the 60's, because of that premier stamp. The font used seems like the old premier logo from the 60's. What it's doing on a Zildjian cymbal is beyond me. I've never seen that before. In the 60's Premier were making their own Super Zyn cymbals to compete with Zildjian.

There are indeed other stamps with the three dots, as I mentioned. But this stamp is the 60s one, not the later three dots ones from the hollow ink logo period, and not the mid 50s one. I can tell because there are other differences between the stamps beyond presence/absence of "the 3 dots". Alas, I don't have any published info documenting and illustrating these other differences fully yet. But if you look at yours, I think you will find that the stylized Ottoman portion and the "ZILDJIAN Co" don't appear in bold relative to the other text on the stamp. For an example of the bolded distinction see below where there are two green arrows pointing towards the bolded elements. This is a "no 3 dots" late 50s stamp, and it also illustrates a vertical alignment of the H over the E.

http://black.net.nz/cym2014/50s.jpg

The bolded elements are shared between the 50s stamp and the 60s stamp, as is the vertical alignment of H over E.

Your stamp probably lacks the vertical alignment of H over E (basically the MADE IN USA is more spread out), and lacks the bolded elements. It may even have a CO. (upper case O) rather than a Co.

If you post a picture of the stamp I'll have a look, but you should be able to tell with what I've written so far. And if what I've guessed about your stamp isn't correct then please definitely post a picture. As far as I know we don't yet have a catalog of all the stamps which were used from the late 70s until the laser stamps took over. I've seen a few variants but I don't even know if that is a complete set. But then I'm just a beginner at this Avedis Zildjian philately. I'm just trying to create quality documentation of the terminology and complete illustrations of the type specimens. All the original work is down to Drumaholic who is the pioneer.

Chromeo 05-23-2014 11:32 PM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for the info. I'm no expert on dating these Zildjians. I can generally tell the era by looking at the stamp, but sometimes the 50's stamp and 70's stamp can confuse me. I often look at the lathing / hammering for clues. The Devil is in the detail or the proof is in the pudding and in this case the pudding is a pie a cymbal pie if you will. I'm not too bothered about dating these cymbals with the hollow ink logo. I know if they have an ink logo they're not the older 50's / 60's Zildjians, so I'm happy enough to just think of them as late 70's early 80's. I'm more interested in finding out a rough date on another 19" Avedis Zildjian I bought on eBay. Mind you, I still haven't received it. It'll be here within 6 - 8 weeks, but it looks like it could be late 50's. It's quite light -1650 grams or thereabouts and shows no sign of hollow ink logo or 3 dots in the Arabic script. Any help with that would be appreciated.

mlayton 05-24-2014 12:43 AM

Re: Can anyone help me work out the age of this Zildjian cymbal?
 
that appears to be a late 50's cymbal chromeo..

mike


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign